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The Top Rated Player Ever
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The Top Rated Player Ever
Posted by calc_guy 3 May 2004 8:37pm     


I asked this question in another thread, but somehow it got lost in a debate about the 'meaning' of ratings or its relationship to skill. Please, we've already chewed that one to death. Let's not go down that road again.

I am just curious if anyone knows what gin player had the highest all time rating on gamecolony, and what that rating was. Anyone ever get over 2800 like chess great, Gary Kasparov?

Also, anyone know anything about the top three rated players here: f18jock, jdr410, and cooody? I never see them playing, and apparantly they've never played any ladder games, cause their names aren't on the ladder.

Just idle curiousity. TIA.
calc_guy

Nope.
Posted by (VIP) 4 May 2004 12:25am     


I never heard of those three guys probably because I never pay attention to ratings, like most in here... guess it's just not that important. Sorry Calc, youre on your own on that one... wish more players paid attention to the ratings so you'd have 'more probability' of getting it answered. Oh well.

Yankee B, you are right
Posted by calc_guy 5 May 2004 2:15am     


It's not important at all. That's why, every day, people make comments like 'Nice rating, calc!' or 'I won't wish you luck, you OBVIOUSLY don't need it!' Shoot, we should send a letter to Gary Kasparov explaining how his 2800+ rating is 'just not that important.'

You know what you should do, Y_B, you should just go ahead and PROVE it's unimportant by getting a 2000+ rating yourself! Just go ahead and DO it! Can't be all that hard, since it's all meaningless and everything. Hehehe.

But if anyone knows the answer, I'm sure there are at least a dozen or two people who would appreciate enlightenment.

calc_guy

my thoughts
Posted by Arubahhh (VIP) 5 May 2004 9:55am     


I have to put my one cent in here. I agree with Calc's first line in the post when he says rating 'is not important all'. Although it was unnecessary sarcasm, he is correct b/c when I play most players on here, I dont look at rating but rather their record. Rating to me just shows who is a hot player. If someone is 1800 and truly plays rated games, then they happen to be doing well and THAT is important to me. His analogies to chess doesnt really hold water as he himself had once mentioned somethign along the lines that the rating system in here uses the 'chess' method but was the wrong one to use.

Oh, and Calc_guy, I re-read Yankee_Baseball's post and I didnt see where she said it was hard to achieve a 2000 rating... but rather it was just unimportant to achieve. The reason why I say this is b/c it seemed you challenged her to show you it was 'unimportant' by trying to get a 2000 rating herself. Not sure how that shows the insignicance of ratings here. All I think that would show is that is may be challenging to actually get to 2000. I agree that it is an accomplishment and probably gives some self satisfaction of achievement once you actually to get there, but as an overall indicator of top players, I would have to agree with Menkman74 and go with record and win/loss percentage over rating. That to me, unlike rating, has value. Again, just my opinion on the subject and you know what they say about opinions... They're like a**holes, everyone's got one.

RATINGS
Posted by theboatman (VIP) 5 May 2004 11:44am     


Ratings for the most part here are meaningless. I have watched people lose games on purpose to gain ratings. All you need is two computers and two conections or a friend and can have any rating you want. And I have watched many people do this in the game rooms.
I like to have a high rating and can get one anytime I chose, but for the most part I play for tickets so I pick who and when I play. I have maintained a high rating in dominoes for a couple months now and I am only an average player. In non ticket games really doesn't matter is all for fun anyhow. But in ticket games look at the win loss record (ticket game win loss record not the free games) tells you the whole story, with the exception of people who lose 50 cent to lower there win percentage to lore people in to high ticket games.

Anyone as good as you should be playing for tickets and clean us all out.

I would love to see the last 10 to 20 games record much more inportant to ticket players than ratings.

o brother
Posted by Rampage11 (VIP) 5 May 2004 8:55pm     


calc take it from me i i been playing on this site since it open,heard and seen it all . but i gotta tell ya , u say ratings mean nuttin but still u go on and on , if u wanna impress the pros let me c u hold a ladder spot...... o say 4 or 5 for a month till than , like u said said drop the rating thing. and i didnotice ur rating the other day it was hi, but tell the truth , is it worth waitng for the few guys with a rating like urs just to play? i rember playing u but ........ well im a guy who likes a hi rating myself , but i dont have time or pataints to sit and wait , and to b honest i just like to play , but when theres other people invovled we get competive i understand this so like i said b4 u wanna impress the pros....... 4 or 5 till than keep playing the same 10 guys i myself mite try to climb the ladder havent tried it in a LONG time i think im ready for them ........calc will i c u there.. and dont take offence i mean it in a nice way .........RAMP

Hi boatman
Posted by calc_guy 5 May 2004 9:22pm     


I know what you're talking about per 'two people and a connection,' but I promise you, I haven't done that. In fact, I have absolutely NEVER even communicated with anyone I have played here, except for the standard gl etc. in the chat box.

Now, I have looked at your record, and I'm very impressed! If I can be impressed with your win/loss record, why can't you be impressed by my rating?? I truly believe, just as a statistical fact, that the two stats are equally meaningful.

However, the day will come when ratings are by far the most relevant, meaningful correlated to skill, yada yada yada. I have it straight from MAB that gamecolony will be adjusting the rating system for all the games offered here. When that happens, ratings SHOULD become just as sought after as they are in chess. So PREPARE YOURSELF.

As far as cleaning people out, didn't your momma ever tell you? Gambling is evil!

calc_guy

Ramp, a simple solution for ya ...
Posted by calc_guy 6 May 2004 1:14am     


'i didnotice ur rating the other day it was hi, but tell the truth , is it worth waitng for the few guys with a rating like urs just to play?'

First of all, I don't do that. I play rated games all the time with people rated 100, 200, even 300 points below me.

Second, I spend almost ZERO time waiting for games. If nobody is around within 300 points, I just invite everybody to an unrated game. Rarely takes more than a minute or two to get a taker.

Funny story about that. The other day, Yankee_Baseball invited me to play a rated game. I responded with an invitation to play an UNrated game at my table. She felt compelled to zap me with a message: 'Sorry calc, but as you can see, playing unrated is no way to make friends around here.'

Only problem is, by the time I got the message, I was ALREADY PLAYING a perfectly delightful game with a 1250 rated player. When we were finished, I said thx for the games, and he said 'Any time.'

Next day, almost exact same thing happened with Menkman.

You see, there just are too many players now on gc for you to perpetrate this little myth that ratings players are 'isolated' and lonely. You'll NEVER get everyone in your conspiracy -- you green eyed little buggers, you.

Ratingz rulez,
calc_guy

putting this to rest
Posted by Menkman74 (VIP) 6 May 2004 12:07pm     


First off, I would never use the words 'not a good way to make friends here' b/c that's not my most important goal when I play and I just would never say that. I invited you to a 150 10 L game and you declined. THEN, you set up the same EXACT settings but made it unrated. I was like 'c'mon calc, are you kidding me? Ridiculous, just ridiculous' ESPECIALLY since my rating was over 1800!! So by you saying you play players 300 points less than your rating... well, that was far from the truth. Second, the game you were referring to with that 1250 rated player was an UNRATED games so it makes no difference who you play b/c the games just dont count.

Ramp is absolutely 100% correct in stating that you have to wait sometimes a while to play a RATED game b/c there are only a select few who have ratings that high and thats b/c they play the same players over and over with similar ratings.

Look, if you want to play for ratings then FINE! WHO CARES! LOL Geez it's so stupid already. So play for a 2800, 3800 6700 rating. I dont care! The bottom line and the undisputed fact remains that a high rated player is not a barometer for who the TOP PLAYERS are. Maybe one day it will be when they change the rating system. But for now, hey for argument's sake if Calc Guy's record is 800-400 and that is the highest winning % on here, then great! Congrats! Way to go! Because you'd have the best record, I'd consider that as a top player in here... once you dont care about ratings anymore and you fall back down to reality and have a 1600 rating, hey GUESS WHAT, youre '820-420' record could still be tops here and thats what counts.

Done with this subject and as always...

Always a Pleasure, Never a Chore...

Menk

Ratings
Posted by (VIP) 6 May 2004 4:54pm     


'I know what you're talking about per 'two people and a connection,' but I promise you, I haven't done that. In fact, I have absolutely NEVER even communicated with anyone I have played here, except for the standard gl etc. in the chat box.'

That's great and I'm sure you haven't altered your own rating by cheating. But I promise you, someone you have played has. When you beat that person, those false rating points go on to your rating. I'm guessing the difference in beating someone who is rated 1800 and someone who is 2100 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 points. Well, when you beat them, that's 15 points more than you 'deserve.' See how it works? Ratings cannot be pure without every player playing fairly and for the same goals. If you don't believe me, look at the ratings on another site which uses the same system (i think) as GC. You'll see several players well over 3000. Are these players better at gin than Kasparov is at chess?

As for the challenge you issued, from what I've seen, Julie plays for money. Playing for rating, which she doesn't see as important, would take time away from what her goal is: to win money.

Whatever you do ...
Posted by calc_guy 12 May 2004 1:14am     


[Note: This is the third time I've tried to post this. It never contained any slander or foul language. But each time I've watered it down to the point where now, it's about as confrontational as Caspar the Friendly Ghost. If this response doesn't go up, I'm going to quit posting to the forum altogether. It's fundamentally unfair to allow people to make accusations, and then disallow such a tepid response. 5/11/04]

... don't let facts get in the way of your arguments. Zhees!

Menk, I didn't say you made the 'friends' comment. The 'friends' statement was almost verbatim from Yankee_Baseball. Then I said almost the same thing happened with Menkman the next day. Your comment was, I believe, 'sad,' which also made very little sense in light of the fact I was already playing a game.

The fact that I set up a game identical to the one you offered me was clearly my attempt to make you happy! You decided to call my nice gesture 'ridiculous.' What's really obvious, and this goes for everyone making these claims, is If you truly believed ratings were meaningless, you would be perfectly happy to play an unrated game.

Then you state I was untruthful claiming I play rated games with ratings 300 points below me, and you use yourself as an example, since your 'rating was over 1800!!' Did you even look at my rating? It's been over 2270, and was well over 2100 when you made your offer. I just have to ask: do under 2000 players have a hard time with arithmetic?

Also, Menk, it is unfair of you to hurl accusations at me in chat, since, as a non-money player, I am not allowed to select your name and respond. Again, today, 5/11/04, you brought up the 300 point business, and your rating was 17xx, while mine was 2170. I can respond to 'All' about 50% of the time for some reason, but that gets tiresome very quickly.

Bill_Cowher, what evidence do you have to suggest anyone is cheating? If two people get on and play in a certain way to get a rating, and the system in place allows that to occur, then a) they deserve that rating, and b) if I play them and win, I deserve a boost to MY rating.

You do realize, I hope, that when you lose your rating ALWAYS goes down, and when you win it ALWAYS goes up. I am not going to gain any rating points by losing to a high rated player. No way.

This is getting silly. If you can get three people on here with ratings over 2000 who agree with the statement 'ratings are meaningless,' then maybe I'll listen. Until then, I'll just have to conclude yer all jes jealous, jealous, jealous.

calc_guy

Why?
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 12 May 2004 5:34pm     


Is this issue that important that is sustains itself in this Forum? If the Calc_Guy wants to play his own games to get rating so be it. Your option is not to play him. To me, it seems like the Calc_Guy is intentionally inflamatory and seems to get some sense of victory in this format.

The other day, I asked the Calc_Guy to play and he accepted on the condition that the match would be unrated. It was my decision to play him. During that match another player posting to this Forum, I won't mention names but he is obviously a Calc_guy adversary, joined our table to WATCH. This was one of the funniest things I've seen in quite a while.

When my 'friend', the Calc_Guy, achieves his goal of a great rating he may then join the majority of the players not as noble as him and start to play for tix in matches or tourneys. Then we will see just how good the man really is.

Oh yes, I do find it offensive for players to limit their play, rated that is, to other players within their range but THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.

As usual, thanks fpr the posting but this subject is getting a bit tired.


Ed
Posted by calc_guy 12 May 2004 9:04pm     


I agree the subject is getting old, but I am not the person who keeps bringing it up. I specifically asked, in the topic post, not to go down this road. No one has even tried to answer my actual question.

I am not intentionally inflammatory, but I am naturally very competitive. Competition is what gamecolony is all about. I also *strongly* believe in answering direct accusations directly. I despise political correctness in every form.

You should not be offended by people who restrict the range of their rated games. That is being offended by intelligent decision making. That's what games are all about.

If you're going to be offended by anything, you should be offended by the system in place that makes that decision intelligent.

calc_guy

Calc
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 13 May 2004 3:08pm     


To tell you the truth I would never have posted a reply to this posting until you used the word 'jealous.' I fully agree its your choice to do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else and you, most certainly, aren't hurting anyone either financially or mentally; I hope.

Your original question is valid but, and there it is again, the question should have been addressed to GC, not posted on the FORUM. My contention is you wanted to kindle that flame again but so be it. As far as your comment about intelligent play, intellect is being able to determine what is acceptable and what is abrasive in a social environment. I know you're not looking for friends in GC but you are a nice guy when you step off the podium.

My point is simple, if you think you're a better player, and possibly the best ever, prove it by playing on the same playing field as the other great players. If you shut them out with arrogance or selection you automatically shut out the possiblity of saying or being the very best in GC. Your tactic is effective but transparrent. You get your opponent upset before, and if, you compete. This, my dear friend, is not being competitve at all. A competitor competes with his or her peers. You seem to think your peers are anyone in the stratified air of over 2,000. I'm sorry if you think that way but don't claim you're the best until you prove it.

I received a bonus for being the very worst player on GC last month. That was easy but I suggest you look at my record against you while remembering you were playing the 'worst player on GC.'

Just kidding of course but the message is as straight as an arrow.

The best way to stop this thread is to stop replying. Hope to see you on the playing field again.


*waves white flag*
Posted by Menkman74 (VIP) 17 May 2004 7:58pm     


I've come to the conclusion Calc that if you want to play just for ratings then ya know what, so be it. Go ahead. Be happy. Do what ya like and what makes you feel good. Just b/c you're in the minority doesnt mean youre not entitled to your own choices of what is or isnt meaningless. You dont even play for $$ so to me you are just like any other non-VIP player, not any more or less important or special than any of them. Do what you need to do here and one day if and when you decide to go VIP and the games really count and mean something, we'll meet at a table and hopefully have some good games. Until then, good luck with your quest to whatever rating you're trying to achieve and hope whatever satisfaction you are looking for, comes your way after you get there.

Always a Pleasure, Never a Chore...

Menk

Sorry Ed, your mind reading is off today
Posted by calc_guy 18 May 2004 3:09am     


You are just wrong in thinking I was trying to rekindle an argument. I don't understand why you think it would be more appropriate to ask this through Contact Us. I assume the same people involved with CU read the Forum, and this is a way to keep down their work load. Frankly, I doubt CU would even answer such a question from a non-ticket holder.

In other groups I've been involved with (going way back to FIDONET), questions and comments are ALWAYS addressed to the open forum, unless there is some private, personal business involved. This is just good policy for a thriving forum.

You are also wrong in your belief that I think I'm the best gin rummy player around. I was never on the level of a Stu Ungar or John Crawford. I don't remember all the cards. A lot of times I go down very late in the hand (10 cards or less remaining) because I think I have proof my opponent has such and such. This is actually very good for my opponents because about 30% of the time I remembered wrong, and I get undercut. So 30% x (-25 at least) + 70% x(maybe 5 on average) is NOT a positive EV move! But ... I keep doing it, hoping my memory will improve.

The 'jealous' comment was a JOKE. This is a GAME we're playing, remember? You can't possibly believe that was serious commentary.

I would also like to assure you all that I didn't get high in the ratings by begging people with higher ratings to play me or calling them names when they turned me down. The unwritten rule is: always treat a higher rated player with RESPECT. Then MAYBE he will grant you a game -- and you should be grateful when that happens. Once I got to 1900, I don't believe I ever ONCE played anyone with a rating 200 points above mine. But MANY times I have played people with ratings 300 below mine. But that will be my decision, on my terms, my rules, and generally it'll be a 300 point game.

I have no desire to prove I'm the best here. I only want to get a high rating and keep it for a month or so. It's something fun to aim for. I would also like to warmly congratulate jdr410 for breaking the 2300 barrier recently. That's *quite* an accomplishment!

Ed, I agree with you that the best way to stop this thread is to stop replying. But YOU are the one who wants the thread to stop, correct? I never stated that as a goal.

As far as your record playing me, you'll have to refresh my memory. I thought you said we were even. Then I won a game, so .... ? And ALWAYS happy to play more games with you, my friend -- UNrated. As far as I'm concerned, unrated games are every bit as valid for proving a point as rated games, so I simply don't understand the arrogant comment. I really, truly, don't get it.

calc_guy

Calc
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 18 May 2004 1:56pm     


You have my deepest appologies for defaming you since that was never my objective. Your goal is admireable and I sincerely hope you get to 3,000. My comments were based on your replies and yes, I did you your comment on jealousy seriously. So be it.

The more important comment made referred to 'competition'. To compete is to play on equal terms with your opponent. This is not Webster but me. Equal terms assumes the risk and rewards of winning and losing. The operative is 'risk'. If you win your rating will grow to your desired level but if you should happen to lose, oops, your rating drops. That is my issue and my only issue.

The rest of us, I should say most of us, play on an equal plain and let the lower rated players have a shot at increasing their rating. You refuse to do this and also refuse to compete for tix. Okay, that's your decision and all of us must abide by it.

You are also correct in the w/l between us. We were tied at 3 games each and you did win the 7th match. You see, this isn't too important to me.

What or who is 'CU'?

It's also funny to see you're a student of gin and know the history of the game and its greatest players. You sure you take playing gin as a mere game for enjoyment, it doesn't sound like it.

My friend, this is my last posting on this subject. Live and be well and I hope you get to the heights you desire. GL.


The Worlds Greatest!!!
Posted by Stimuli 18 May 2004 6:47pm     


My name is Stimuli and I am always in the top 5. Gin Rummy is a game of pure skill, if you think it's not that's probably why you've never seen 2200 before. Figure the game out, and create a winning strategy for yourself and mabey I'll see you up there some day. Peace.

The Finale
Posted by Menkman74 (VIP) 18 May 2004 10:12pm     


I'm glad my last post directed at Calc Guy was finitive b/c it really deemed no reply.

Stimuli?? Stimuli? Who's this now? lol Stim stim stim stim... STIM! Stimster! Guy! You're 159-159 lol. So ease up on the Top Five and skill comments boss. With that record, all you're doing is solidifying our point that a high rating here has nothing to do with how good a player is! Thanks... I guess?

Always a Pleasure, Never a Chore...

Menk

My record is like that because I only play the...
Posted by Stimuli 19 May 2004 6:09pm     


My record is like that because I only play the top players on this site, If I wanted to play a bunch of 1800 people all day long and rack up wins to make my record look more impressive I could do that. But I choose to play only the best and don't care to waste my time with the rest.

Menk.....
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 19 May 2004 11:46pm     


Too much time lost.....They just don't get the idea and that's just fine. If they think they're the best they're in for a rude awakening. I guess the words 'competition' and 'compete' have gotten new meanings. To play in a vacuum is not competition.

Let's get on with the real play/players.



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