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Game Quality Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 25 Aug 2005 8:33pm Wow. Over the past few weeks I've noticed an incredible improvement in the quality of players on GC at all levels. Okay, I'm no authroity or am I qualified to be an expert but the difference is noticeable. We all hate the 'one-sided' match and the '2nd card gin' but that's just part of the game. What I'm referring to are real matches that go to the 15th card and below and often end in draws. I had one match the other night that I made a critical mistake on almost the last card. I knew I had two of my opponent's gin cards, it was OKIE with an Ace turn-card, instead of breaking my runs in an effort to get a draw I htrew one of the cards and it cost me the match. Shame on me but the match was wonderful. The one's that either player can win right down to the very last hand. Yes, the slow-play is getting worse also but the players seems to be a bit more polite. I guess I'm picking my opponents better than I did before. I really enjoy playing a low rated player that teaches me how the game is really supposed to be played. What I am saying is that GC is starting to come around to 'survival of the fittest' where the better player wins and that's the way it should be. The only other wush I could want is for GC to flag slow players in some way so we don't have to play them and they can play others with habits like their own. This would do away with most of the problems on the site. What do you think? slow players Posted by HeyyJude (VIP) 26 Aug 2005 1:31am Hi Ed. I've written to the Forum twice in two days regarding horribly slow players and they have elected not to put my letters in the Forum. I think we should have some kind of boycotting system for these players....I mean the ones who take 45 seconds to look at your discard, then draw and take another 45 seconds at least to discard. It spoils the game completely and really makes me mad! Mizgin Slow Play & Forum Posted by webmaster 27 Aug 2005 1:37pm If a game has just started or one player is ahead, that player can close table & abort the game at any time without penalty (whether the reason is opponent's slow play or not). The game will be annulled & Tickets (if any) refunded. If anyone has a legitimate complaint against any particular player or game, the place for it is Contact Us -- NOT the forum. The rules for posting in our forums are simple.The forum is for general conversation, special announcements, legitimate tips,encouragement and yes even personal views on numerous subjects.A material offensive to any player will not be posted. This includes any kind of bashing whatsoever. Racial and sexual comments are not allowed.A good rule of thumb is this: It anyone might be offended by a post, do NOT write it because it will not be acceptable. No advertising of other sites will be allowed. Although we value our members greatly and have provided the forums for the benefit and at the request of our members, we will never allow our forum to become a battleground nor will we allow negative postings or those that are mean-spirited. Any post which is a 'put down' of one of our players, our tds, our administrators or the site will be edited and/or removed. Again, Contact Us is the place for any legitimate complaints against any player, TD or the site. Webbie Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 28 Aug 2005 1:48am We have chatted on many occassions and discussed many ideas. Some of which you accepted and others you have not. The issue of slow play has been in this Forum for at least the years that I've been playing. This is the very first time I am seeing a comment about closing a table. Is the operative 'if that player is ahead' or can any match be closed before a certain number of hands are played? In other words, what is the criteria you've set to close a table without penalty? I know the answer is difficult since I've been in hands that I've gotten 106 pts in the first hand and was ahead 190 to 30 something and my opponent won the match fair and square. On the other hand, I've been trailing badly at a given time and have come back to win the match. Where is the cutoff and does this give a player the option of quitting, without penalty, if he or she is losing? Everything you've stated is understood and easily accepted but the issue of slow-play has not been addressed. I am not talking about that player that has connectivity problems or that over player that has failing eyesight and can't read the chat I am talking about the player that is a chronic slow player that seems to play real fast when he or she wants to. Usually when they are winning their mode of play changes dramatically. May I suggest an option within the game-room that gets sent to GC regarding slow play. If that same player gets numerous complaints something should be done about it. This is a valid point and also a valid strategy of some players. I submit this posting with only good intentions and I think you know that. My last posting was withheld on another subject but I agree with your decision either though I tempered the comments. Chances to Win, Slow Play, etc. Posted by webmaster 28 Aug 2005 11:26am * It is relatively easy to determine the players' average chances to win at any time in the game. For Gin, the players start out with 50% chances each and, as the game progresses, the scores + cards-in-hands + cards in deck determine the chances-to-win at any point in the game. Note: although chances-to-win for someone can be negligible, it does not mean that once-in-a-blue-moon win is impossible. For example, if chances-to-win are calculated for someone as 10%, all it means is that, on average, this player will win once out of 10 games starting at that point in the game. Per Terms & Conditions -- a document that all players have indicate an agreement with prior to every $Ticket game:'The mini-tourney will be annulled and all fees refunded ... if the unfinished game had (i) no score (ii) low score [the game is in early stages] or (iii) the party that lost connection & could not reconnect to the same game was ahead (had preferred winning chances) * Slow play issues or any other complaints against any player, TD or the site should be addressed via Contact Us. GameColony has the ability to determine whether there is a real consistent and intentional slow play or if a perception of slow play is based on the complainer's personal connection fluctuations or misjudged game chances. If GameColony makes a determination that a player exhibits consistent and intentional slow play or any other unsportsmanlike behavior, GameColony has a number of ways to make sure that this player either shapes up or ships out. Various combination of shaping-up and shipping-out have been quite successful so far for behavior modification. If someone wants to launch a legitimate specific complaint against a specific player, the place for it is Contact Us, not this Forum. * Different Forum moderators may have differed a bit in their determination of what constituted an inappropriate posting. In the future, we'll try to apply the guidelines to forum postings in a more consistent manner -- see my previous posting. Webbie Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 28 Aug 2005 8:58pm As usual, thanks for your quick and complete repsonse. I am a bit confused with your point 'iii'. If the player in the lead disconnects the fees will be reimbursed? That is not what's actually happening but it is fair so that the lead player can't let his or her opponent have the chance to catch up. Is this accurate or am I missing something? From webmaster: Any gin rummy game where a disconnected player is in REAL lead (per score + existing cards), will be automatically annulled and all fees refunded. As far as the 'discussion' about slow play when no names are mentioned. I always thought it was a good thing to get an exchange of ideas and to at least let other players know that the problems faced by them are the same for all of us. Open discussion leads to an exchange of ideas and can only be a plus for all that care to read the Forum. I've noticed definite gaps in the use of this media when certain players decide not to post. From webmaster: There's another side to this coin: quite often, real results and investigation is required, so instead of posting an unproven accusation hinting about a certain unnamed player, we'd welcome a Contact Us report -- it will be more efficient by far. Conversely, wheb postings are made there is usally a good exchange of idea and players seem to crreate a commeraderie that I, personally, enjoy. That is only my thought. Thanks again. Uh Oh Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 28 Aug 2005 11:17pm Webbie: You know I always let you know when there's an aggresious act and you always follow up. But, the Forum postings don't indicate names and aren't intended, on my part, to create work or investigation by you or your great people. Granted, there are times when I experience something in a match that touches that 'creative writing' bug in me but my intent is to generate thoughtful input. A few posts ago one of the replies to my postings were an outright attack on me but I expect that type of thing and rather enjoy sparring with some of the others. It's all in the positive spirit of the Forum and I believe I've been received well in that format. I was the one, back in the early 1990's, that had serious surgery and and couldn't sleep. That's right, the issue of the time was OJ Simpson. To solicit responses I took the stand that he would never be convicted. Needless to say, my computer almost blew up with the responses. I created scenarios that eventually persuaded a good number of people to my incredibly unbased conclusion. As it turned out, I was right. I had to laugh because people from all over the world were waiting to see what was to be said next. That was a good Forum (Chat Room) and I assume your Forum is meant to accomplish the same end. If I am wrong, please let me know and I will stop. It's your call. In any event, thanks for listening. last try.... Posted by tole 29 Aug 2005 9:47am Ed, my post was not an attack at you. It was an unsuccessful attempt to make you see that the complaining you started here, in this forum was going the wrong way and not doing any good. What you saw as 'commeraderie' I saw as splitting the players into groups or better said �ganging up�. I am all for constructive discussions, but most of what you have posted so far, I see as being far from constructive. The only thing it was achieving was to make us paranoid and uncomfortable. You want to discuss game play?..That's something different and I'll be glad to do it. Just specify is it about all game play or just ticket games. Have a great day Tole.... Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 29 Aug 2005 5:51pm As I stated in my last posting to you, anything that stimulates quality conversation is constructive. I know this is just my opinion and I appreciate criticism from anyone positive or negative. That's the way things get done. I've been chatting the in the Forum for years and I've always enjoyed the exchanges. My intent is not to offend anyone. There was a time last year that I did get into a hassle with one player and it ended up with me challenging that player to a $1,000 match. That quieted things done real fast because my challenge was genuine. I don't nor have I ever claimed to be a great player but I do have the reputation of being able to hold my own against the very best. I know who those players are. I'm not psychic I can just see the way they play. There are a good number of great players on GC and some of them are professionals. This is great as long as you know your own limits and don't lose too much. It is my opinion, that the quality of the games on GC are getting better. That's not a bad thing. Slow play is an issue. If we can bring up subjects that help the make the site better we all benefit. Remember, this is a business venture but they do allow no-money games and I think that is a gift to non-tix players. Let's face it, the ticket players are paying for the non-ticket players and that is a fact of life. It's ironic that more than 50% of the games played are for non-tix but that's the way GC set it up. Don't knock it unless you pay for it. That sounds harsh but it is also fact of life. If I offended you in any way I appologize. If I didn't offend you I appologize to everyone else. Just kidding. I like posting too Posted by tole 30 Aug 2005 3:18am BTW, still on my vacation too, so I have loads of time. Back to the subject- I guess then the question should be � what is quality conversation? Let�s try this- what are your criteria for someone to be called a �great player�? How do you judge that or can you judge it at all? Is it the Ladder position? I have noticed that every time I go down in rating I leap up the ladder ranking. So, how can I be among the best when my rating has dropped to average or lower? We choose which it will be. Is it playing games for larger stakes? We have different �strategy�, as you like to say, when playing ticket games and ordinary games. Our motivation changes and so does our way of playing. Which kind do we judge? That is why I asked you to specify exactly what kind of play you want to discuss. As for the slow play issue; it doesn�t bother me much. I have accepted it as normal that games among lower rated players (or rarely among highly analytical players) are slower, so I try to keep my rating high and thus play the faster players. Many things contribute to slower game play. I agree there are some that do it on purpose but they are so few in number that I don�t see it worth discussing. My opinion is that the main reason for slow play is the connection and that lower rated players are more interested in the company than actually in pounding away a game. The players that are a �constant�, meaning with a record of several thousand games, mostly play at the same rate; which brings me to the last part of your post- �Don't knock it unless you pay for it.� I wasn�t aware anyone was �knocking� anything or did you mean that as a non-ticket player I shouldn�t be discussing this? Yes, GC is a business venture. Nothing comes free, but I don�t see it as an �allow no-money games and I think that is a gift to non-tix players� thing. I think the non-ticket players are just as important. They make up the greater mass of players, they keep the game play standards high, they make the site popular and it�s from them that new ticket holders are spawned. Without them, the number of players (including ticket players) would dwindle. As I said ticket and non �ticket games are played differently and the majority of players enjoy playing both. Tole Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 30 Aug 2005 4:16pm We seem to be goiong in circles so just let me address your points. If you can't tell if an opponent is a quality player or not you shouldn't be playing for tix. As an example, I played probably the very best player on GC. This is not my opinion, it is a matter of fact and is a concensus of s majority of the bettre players on GC. If you play this person, I'm not even disclosing gender, you will know from the first hand that you are up against a pro. This is true of about a dozen or so players that I know of. What are my qualifications to say this? None. This is my opinion but it just happens to be shared by most other players. These are the players that I learn something new every time I play them and it is always my pleasure. As far as tix versus non-tix players my statement is one of fact, not opinion. The majority of players are non-tix and there is a vast representation of the very best players in that group. I play non-tix quite often but usually when challenged to play in the main room. I do enjoy every match I play. Non-tix players should have every right to speak as tix players and GC makes certain they do. I will go out on a limb, as I often do, and suggest to GC that a membership fee is charged to join GC for all non-tix players. Non-Tix players don't play differently than tix players since the objective of the game is the same both ways. For the last time, slow play is and always will be an issue. I have no problem with slow play as long as it's not intentional. Some players use it as a strategy and it does work. It is up to you who you choose to play. In a tourney there is no choice. I keep a list of the players I don't want to play. There are a few very slow HR tourney players but that is just a fact of life. Are there any other opinions on this matter by other players? A merry - go - round?? Weeeeeeeeee! Posted by tole 30 Aug 2005 6:12pm Ok Ed, I can be very patient, but please do not read into my posts what I haven�t written. That is why we are going in circles. 1.I asked what quality conversation was, not quality play. 2.As for quality game - what I said was that you can�t mix different criteria for judging quality. We choose what we are going to go after; the ladder, tickets, rating or nothing and just play. 3.I never mentioned ticket versus non-ticket players. My point was that both are needed equally. 4.A ticket and a non ticket game is played differently. The objective is not the same. In one you play to win money, in the other you lose nothing but points that don�t cost you anything. A drastic difference. 5.A membership fee would greatly reduce the number of players. You forget the many come, play several games and leave, but some do stay and they are the important ones and thus would be lost. It�s in our nature to first try out something and see if we like it. 6.As for slow play- well that�s the risk of tourney playing, there is almost always someone we secretly pray we won�t be matched with but- c�est la vie - and of course our luck. I don�t believe the table time could be set any lower than 1 min; it would be too risky and may cause too many unfinished games and certainly, you can�t exclude the players that you think are purposely slow. One thing you could try is, slow down and match their speed. Two can play the waiting game and it usually speeds them up. I find it much more effective than complaining about it. And last, you are right, it would be good to hear some more opinions. For The Last Time..... Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 30 Aug 2005 11:04pm The posting is 'GAME QUALITY' not 'conversation. That one is yours alone. I don't look for nor do I need quality conversation from other players. My reference, in another posting, was 'rudeness' not chat. We do differ on opinion when it comes to Tix and Non-Tix matches. I play both alike, I play to win and both are equally important to me. I consider my time as an asset and if I invest that asset I want a return. The win is what I play for otherewise I would never play non-tix matches. There is a difference in playing a 100pt and 150pt match but tix versus non-tix is all the same for me. As silly as it sounds, and it won't sound silly to those that know me, I have a problem taking money from people I care for. Ironically, I'm not alone and I've Fee-Shared many tourneys over the years and played for the win. I agree with the fact that 'a fixed fee' would reduce the number of players and I think it happens to be the opinion of GC that non-tix players do convert to tix players after they see what they are getting. My point was that someone has to pay your way to be able to play and even use this Forum and that happens to be me; tix players. Like it or not, that is a fact of life. I'm quite certain that GC is not a registered charitable organization and I know the people who run the site and the tourneys and they are great people. Its funny that I'm approached out of this Forum about the Forum. I do wish more people would participate. Hmmm...read what you write. Posted by tole 31 Aug 2005 2:16am I was referring to what you wrote in the previous post-�As I stated in my last posting to you, anything that stimulates quality conversation is constructive�. I thought you meant the �conversation� here in this forum. Geez! You really don�t read the posts. It is not silly feeling bad about taking money from friends. Most of us feel that way too.I have always avoided playing $ games with friends. �My point was that someone has to pay your way to be able to play and even use this Forum and that happens to be me; tix players. Like it or not, that is a fact of life. I'm quite certain that GC is not a registered charitable organization. I believe I never stated my preferences. Your writing that for the second time, I can only read as-�you are a non-ticket player, be grateful I let you play at all and shut-up.� Well, sorry Ed, that won�t happen. I am just as much a part of this site as you are and I have just as much right to express my opinion as you have and I will go on to do so. I am of the oppinion that your suggestions are very restrictive and don't contribute to the further growth of this site, so I will continue to oppose them. If I am grateful, then it is only to the GC for turning it into such a diverse site where we can all enjoy ourselves. Tole....... Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 31 Aug 2005 9:11pm Take, take, take and take. How about giving something tangible other than your opposition to me? I have no harsh feeling towards you and I rather enjoy playing non-tix games which have much less pressure than HR games. It's a matter of preference and I prefer both. You seem to be missing my point by a country mile. I know that some of the very best players are non-tix players and we had one in particular last year that set out to get the very highest Gin rating ever and he did. Too bad he's gone. I really don't understand your postings other than you dislike what I have to say. That's your right even if it's wrong. Country mile.. Posted by tole 1 Sep 2005 4:01am Me is a city girl, don't know what a country mile is, so then, I can never miss it. Take? What am I taking Ed? What exactly is your point? I don�t see why you are saying this: �some of the very best players are non-tix players�. Why is that important? Who was comparing ticket and non-ticket players? It was me that said they shouldn�t and can�t be compared. And it�s you that�s being lost in your country mile. My points were- You can�t compare or judge who the �very best� player is by combining different criteria. Actually there are two modes of ranking, the rating and the ladder and different reasons or aims we play for. Non-ticket players are just as important as ticket players- and I said why. I don�t owe you, as a ticket player, anything; I owe the site for keeping the high standards. Slow play comes with lower ranked players - deal with it in other ways and not by complaining here. I said why the table settings can not go below 1 min. You started a negative and restrictive trend here and that was what I opposed, not you as a person. I see no purpose in writing you anymore. Apparently you continue to read in my posts what you think is there and not what is written. At the end I will only repeat what I wrote in my first post: it's arrogant of you to think �you� are GC. Wrong there, we all are. Ed- What Have You Accomplished??????? Posted by jag-girl (VIP) 1 Sep 2005 8:06am This is not an attack, just my observations, so before you respond back telling me 'everyone that knows me knows what a good guy I am'....... I feel Tole is correct in that a restrictive & negative trend was started here by you Ed. I believe your goal was to get a 'rise' out of people in the hopes to revive this forum and accomplish some personal agenda. You started out weeks ago criticizing people for not acknowledging your Hi & GGs, and have moved from complaint to complaint right down the line. Every time someone expressed disagreement or offense at your comments you have reminded them of your popularity here at GC, as if to oppose your viewpoint would hurt an individuals standing was the underlying insinuation. This is an extremely unfair tactic. Furthermore, when pressed on the particulars of what you have posted, you tend to attempt revision of what you stated earlier. Go back and read your postings from start to finish and, hopefully, you will see what I mean. Or, maybe not.... My point being this. You started this trend/ style of posting. What have you accomplished? Exactly! Posted by tole 1 Sep 2005 8:22am Thanks, Jag-girl, you read and understood exactly what I was posting about. I was starting to worry that maybe, my English wasn't good or clear enough. tole Posted by jag-girl (VIP) 1 Sep 2005 9:37am Your English is just fine. I think it's my Irish that's coming out.......!! Jag-Girl Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 1 Sep 2005 4:24pm Thanks for your reply. I do believe we've played a few times but I'm not certain. I have no personal agenda on GC or in The Forum. I enjoy communicating with good people. If my ideas, and I repeat, my ideas, are not constructive I will sease to write in this Forum. I am not GC. What I am saying is not harmful or demeaning or targeted at any one player. I tried to start this posting by discussing the 'quality of play' in my humble opinion. Tole seems to take offense at everything I write and that's just fine. I asked for other input and you pitched in. I have to assume that your opinion, as Tole's, could be the consensus of GC players. I hope you're wrong but I must respect your input as I respect everyone's opinion. Concerning your statement about reviving the Forum you are right on target and I do enjoy the exchange of ideas and mixng with the players who I consider good people despite the fact if I agree with them or not. With is in mind, I will once again stop posting to the Forum since the only feedback I seem to be getting is negative. I appologize to all my friends in GC who've thanked me for my postings but I won't swim against the tide. KK, as they say in GC. Your point has been made and I assume it's a consensus idea. Thanks Conversation Posted by wilpat (VIP) 1 Sep 2005 9:35pm SYLLABICATION: con�ver�sa�tion PRONUNCIATION: knvr-sshn NOUN: 1. a. The spoken exchange of thoughts, opinions, and feelings; talk. b. An instance of this: held a long conversation on the subject. 2. An informal discussion of a matter by representatives of governments, institutions, or organizations. OTHER FORMS: conver�sation�al �ADJECTIVE conver�sation�al�ly �ADVERB Reply to this topic Subject: Message: Main Forum \| Post Reply

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