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A Very Funny Observation......
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A Very Funny Observation......
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 12 Oct 2005 5:13pm     


I've often seen this and couldn't figure it out so I backed off trying. Over the past few weeks a great number of players have challenged me to matches and I try to respond favorably 'if' I think it would be a good match.

Thinking about this, the next times you play look at the 'time per move' set by your opponent and see if my observation is correct.

The people setting the lowest allowable time of 1 min. are the slowest players. That's an oxymoron but it seems to hold true.

I'd like to get other opinions on this issue and a possibility of setting a speed option, totally voluntary, of say 15 seconds. I know GC doesn't like this because people have varying computer speeds but I know certain players that have DSL connections that average in excess of 30 seconds a move. You can see the connectivuty speed by activating that little box on the left bottom of the play screen.

Okay, this is about 'slow play' once again but this problem is not going away.

What are your thoughts?

Dear Ed,
Posted by (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 12:46am     


I'm with you Ed, about slow playing. But I never checked to the depth that you have. I just can't figure out why it often takes 30 sec to decide whether to draw or take the top card....and whether the card is drawn or taken from the top, why another 30 to 40 sec to decide what to do.....Slow connections are the not problem...(I don't think)..

When I do find a player that plays 'up to speed' no matter what the time setting is, I will acknowledge the player and thank them for playing faster..No need in being a speed demon, but slow playing, is not my cup of tea. And yes, even a person with a disability, plays faster than some without. And I will admit, that sometimes I am distracted by one thing or another, thus causing slower play, but then the game will be back up to speed.....Any normal game should not take over 10 min to finish,15 min at the most......unless, of course, the point value of the game is set higher.....but I am speaking of games 125 or less, in the 10 min time limit....I'm just an average player who likes to have a good game....Since we all know, no matter your rating or ladder....you can lose a game or two, as easily as you can win them too.

Dear Ed,
Posted by (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 12:46am     


I'm with you Ed, about slow playing. But I never checked to the depth that you have. I just can't figure out why it often takes 30 sec to decide whether to draw or take the top card....and whether the card is drawn or taken from the top, why another 30 to 40 sec to decide what to do.....Slow connections are the not problem...(I don't think)..

When I do find a player that plays 'up to speed' no matter what the time setting is, I will acknowledge the player and thank them for playing faster..No need in being a speed demon, but slow playing, is not my cup of tea. And yes, even a person with a disability, plays faster than some without. And I will admit, that sometimes I am distracted by one thing or another, thus causing slower play, but then the game will be back up to speed.....Any normal game should not take over 10 min to finish,15 min at the most......unless, of course, the point value of the game is set higher.....but I am speaking of games 125 or less, in the 10 min time limit....I'm just an average player who likes to have a good game....Since we all know, no matter your rating or ladder....you can lose a game or two, as easily as you can win them too.

Texas
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 3:55pm     


The only reason for me checking the connection speed is that I've been criticized that all players don't have dsl available to them. Even so, whe I had dial up it never took me more than 3 seconds to make a move. One of the TDs, a great gin player, doesn't have DSL available and she never takes more than a few seconds to respond.

Sometimes I laugh when my opponent turns down the up-card, I turn it down also and then it takes 30 seconds to decide whether or not to take a card from the deck. The card will not change in that 30 seconds.

I do give the mentally challenged a grace but that never sesm to be a problem whe these players have a significant lead.

There are some that stretch tourneys to 1 1/2 to 2 hours and that is just unacceptable.

I almost forgot, this thread is about the player that sets the time to '1 minute' and then take up to 45 seconds to make a move. Why not have the courtesy of letting their opponent know they are slow players? A set of 1 minute implies faster play...I thought.

Thanks for the reply


1 minute time
Posted by CureMe (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 6:07pm     


Ed,

I wanted to give you some feed back that you requested.

I am a player who sets one minute tables. When I set a table, it is 150 pt reg with one minute per move. I have done this in an effort to thwart slow players, as I have sat in games where my opp takes well over 2 minutes to move........ makes me CRAZY!

I have never personally noticed the pattern that you have observed, but I don't fit it. ) I am a fast player. Even one minute moves, however, don't help when your opp takes the whole minute each and every move........agony!

Take care,
Cindy
aka CureMe



Hi Cindy
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 8:57pm     


I gave you the wrong impression. I also set the games I play to 1 minute to keep slower players away but it doesn't work. There are some players with dial-up connevtion and older computers that are legitimately slower but they don't take 30 sec to move.

I also don't mean to imply that I won't wait for a slwoer player. There are some very fine players that take up to 10 seconds a move and that's just fine. It's the ones that stretch it out that bother me. I also notice a miracle; when the slower players take a commanding lead their game speed increases. Now how can I explain that?

Slow play is a strategy. I don't like it but I accept it. I would like to see GC make some type of designation of players that play slow so that other slow and slower players would play them and leave the faster players to play faster games.

I also feel that the tourney speed of play should be lowered so that a poor TD doesn't have to wait for 2 hours for a 150 points tourney to end. I was a TD and I know this always irked me. BTW, Td's get no pay for their services and their efforts are nothinhg short of miraculous.

Again,something should be done to stop or 'red-flag' slow play players so we all don't have to suffer.

SPEED
Posted by ExactlyOdo (VIP) 14 Oct 2005 11:48pm     


I also always put 1 minute down. I try not to be a slow player. But when I'm playing some of the good players for high stakes (for me that is $15 or over} I notice that sometimes I'll take between 15 and 20 seconds to make a move.

I try never to take more than 20 seconds max. What kills me is when an opponent, and this has happened on many occasions, takes 30 seconds to pick up a discard and gins.

Observations-
Posted by tole 15 Oct 2005 3:59am     


I see some object to my writing and I was going to refrain from commenting, but my ‘Libra Justice’ won’t let me because I think there are some things we are overseeing.
These are my observation and my opinion and not trying to oppose anyone.
During all of the tens of thousand games I have played here, I have run into some that play the way ED describes but they are a very small minority and I don’t agree that their way of playing is worth curbing the rights of all the rest.
I have noticed that the lower I go, especially if I drop under 1500 rating, the games are much slower. I try to stay with a high skill rating, not because I care for it, but because then I don’t have to play slower games and I don’t have that problem.
Until recently, I never paid attention to the table time setting, I played the default, until someone came to my table and left with the comment ’you are slow, a 5 min table’. Now I set it to 1 min.

I see several reasons for slow playing even with a very fast connection:

1. Yes, purposely dragging out the game- but there are less than 5 players that I know of that do that and I try to avoid them. I understand, it’s not fun running into them in a tourney, but then, it’s up to us to weigh out if the stakes are worth it.

2. Connection speed is one thing but an overstuffed computer can be an even bigger slow up. Adds, cookies, programs working in the background can slow up a computer much more than a bad connection. And we must not forget that most of us play for fun and to escape from our daily stress. We take a break by playing; it’s not our main preoccupation so that we ‘prepare’ our comps solely for that purpose and do nothing else while playing.

3. Then, of course there is the: ’they pick up speed when they get into the lead’.
I find myself doing that too, but never on purpose. Sometimes I am dealt such bad cards that I can stare at them for hours and still not figure out what will hurt less, picking up a discard or taking a risk, and then the same thing with my discarding. Then I get a lucky break, and the cards just seem to fall into place by themselves. Whichever one I choose is the right one and whichever one I discard, even if I make a mistake, it gets corrected in the next draw. Come on, we’ve all been through this. I could play blindfolded when that happens and faster than fast can be.

4. And the last reason. I believe some set a 1min table convinced that it will speed up their game. What I mean is that if they have a slow computer then they think that setting a lower table time will speed up their game. We forget that many playing are still very computer ignorant and many never bother to read the rules and see that it has nothing to do with speeding up their comp.

My point is- I think the management has done the best they can. Even with a fast connection there are many things that influence the speed of the game. Looking at the little connection comp during play is not the only sign/measure of a fast or slow game. Cutting down the play time would be very risky, especially for the ticket games. Instead of drawing more players it would turn away more.



'The way I play'....
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 15 Oct 2005 4:38pm     


Everyone is entitled to play the way he and she wants. The issue is not about any onr particular player. Some of the very finest players take more time than most others and that is fine. 3four is an excellent player and I've played him many times and never noticed what I call 'slow play.'

A delay of 10 seconds has never been questioned. I play faster than most but have never asked any player to keep up with me other than those playing slower than 30 seconds a move and eben then I just remember one time, just the other day, when I asked the player to speed up.

I hate to discuss another fact but it is a fact and that's a player's ability to make quick decisions and comprehend the ultimate outcome of his or her moves. Be it 2 seconds, 10 seconds or 30 seconds, the crads in your hand and the cards already played will not change because you can't make a decision.

If you know you are a slow player seek out players that play at your rate and avoid the faster players. I am asking GC to put some 'marker' or indication that a particular player is slow. It may even be voluntary but something should be there wto warn potential opponents that the 125 reg gin game will not take less than 10 minutes but may last 1/2 hours.

This is a reality and it should be addressesd.

I'm not blaming any player for his/her style of play but when that style affects the play of others it should be addressed. This is especially the case of tourney play.

I can't comment on Tole because I've never had the pleasure of playing her. I'd like that opportunity and I don't have to play for tix to enjoy a match.

slow play
Posted by jag-girl 16 Oct 2005 12:42pm     


I guess I didn't put too much thought into this subject until a few days ago. I was playing in a tourney and my opponent was so slow I seriously considered walking away. I never said anything. I typed into the comment box, 'I say this with outmost respect, could you please speed things up a bit'. I never sent it, concerned that it was his connect speed that was causing the problem. I just hung in there. I believe a 150 reg gin game with this guy took over 20-25 minutes. It was dreadful torture! The next tourney I played in this gentlemen was there and I prayed not to be paired with him. Luckily, I wasn't.
Ed- I've noticed that you've been paired with this guy in tourneys as well. I know it can be frustrating but, if you see these individuals you know are slow in the tournies can you get a refund before the start of tourney? Does it have to be five minutes before the start of tourney to get refund? I believe the rule states this. But, the rule also states all players must be in the room 5 minutes prior. People sign up within seconds of the start of tourney. Can we get a refund prior to start of tourney?
I think the only real answer here is to avoid these players that you know to be frustrating. Or, perhaps back out of any tournies you see these players in.......? Of course, this does mean you will have to play them at least once to realize their type of play.

why do hit that button
Posted by NiceJammies (VIP) 16 Oct 2005 10:21pm     


i think i happen to know each and every name of players who play too slow for me to be able to have a good time, yet, when i accidentally happen to end up playing one of them, why in the world do i hit new game after the first one is over. thats what i cant figure out. cheers to all. and any slow players reading this, oh never mind. i just cant say it. cheers, jammies

Hi Laurie
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 16 Oct 2005 11:28pm     


The answer is easy....you say another because you are a good person.

I've known you for a while.

No argument there BUT............
Posted by Lacey (VIP) 17 Oct 2005 9:19am     


Giving another game to a slow player or any other player doesn't automatically make you a 'good' person or turning down a second game does NOT make you a 'bad' person.

I take exception to the insinuation that if I don't give a second game it makes me less than a 'good' person!

jag-girl
Posted by (VIP) 17 Oct 2005 10:30am     


If you are playing in a tourney, and you decide not to play for whatever reason, no explanation is needed, and you want your money back before the tourney starts, ask your TD host/hostess, to out you....you should get all your tix back...instead of withdrawing yourself.....and you can highlight the TD's name and say in private if you prefer.

Mr_Ladybug
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 17 Oct 2005 4:25pm     


That is really funny and is my mistake. I no Jammies and she is a wonderful person. I didn't mean to say giving a person another game is great but she happens to be a very special lady and I can just see her staring at the screen saying 'Whay did I do that?'

Sorry for the wrong impression. I happen to agree with you 100%.

Jag-Girl
Posted by Ed_Blue (VIP) 17 Oct 2005 4:29pm     


I believe the approach being taken is if you don't play the first match in a tourney you get a full refund. I also believe this as set up to give people with connectivity problems and legitimate reasons not to play a way to have fees refunded.

I do know of times that players intentionally didn't play their first bracket because they didn't care to compete with their bracketed opponent. Not me.


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